Our interviews

The Reality of being a Black Doctor: Dr Ayoyemi Shares her Experience

October 2024

In our most recent interview, Davida Adekanle spoke with Dr Ayoyemi - an NHS doctor. She shared her experience with prejudice during her time at medical school and the racism and misogyny she faces as a doctor. She spoke powerful words about the change that needs to be made and what young people should know about the healthcare system. This insight highlights the issues within the UK's healthcare system and the changes that need to be made. 

Watch or read the interview below to find out how we can lift the lid.

Interview transcript 

DA

I'm here with Doctor Ayoyemi. How are you doing today?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I'm good. Thank you.

DA

 So firstly, I want to start off by asking how your journey has been in becoming a doctor?

Dr. Ayoyemi

 It's been a long journey and an unconventional journey. I had the aspiration to do medicine since the start of secondary school, I was quite determined and knew what I wanted and knew I had to do well at every stage of my academic career. But there were a few hurdles, and by the time I got to A-levels, I don't think I had the right support and mentorship. I did a lot independently and I worked hard independently but unfortunately, I didn't get a place at medical school. I continued to work hard and that hard work took me to study biomedical sciences at Warwick [university], which was an Intense course, a course of depth. And it gave me a wealth of knowledge and opportunity. From there on I was able to do some work and prepare myself to reapply for medicine which I did two years post graduating at Warwick and I was admitted too. I got admission at Sheffield University where I studied undergrad medicine for five years. So, if you total it up from 18 years old to graduating it took 10 years. I met many people on the same boat as me on the journey, who experienced the challenges of getting into medicine in the early 2010s. Yes, this is how I got here.

DA

Great journey. My next question is what is your day-to-day basis as a doctor?

Dr. Ayoyemi

My day-to-day basis as a doctor, well, it depends where I'm posted. As a foundation year one doctor, I can be placed on my usual ward which I'm doing currently on care of the elderly. Or I could be placed in the ambulatory care unit, which is a triage version of emergency medicine where you see people more likely to be admitted to the hospital for longer-term assessments. So, if I'm on the wards, my day is to start at 9:00 AM with a handover, so the nurses present all the patients. Then I go see the patients. I read up on their notes, I know their histories, I talk to them, I examine them. Sometimes it can be focused on an examination based on their complaint and then I make a management plan and I can do this with the consultant and discuss it or do it myself and then discuss it with the consultant. It's been a steep learning curve. You know, getting this new responsibility, but it's been a great one.

DA

Were there any moments in medical school where you questioned whether you were on the right track?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I think a lot of students in university and especially medical school have something called Imposter syndrome. So yes, I definitely questioned myself if I was on the right track at times where the knowledge was, you know, overwhelming. The content was too much and there was so much to balance, especially as I was working part-time to fund the course at the same time. I definitely did question that. But when you realise that your peers are asking the same questions, it reassures you that it's just a moment that will pass and you can get through it.

DA

Where do you see your career going then?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I see myself in the next two years entering core surgical training. And once I've completed that, I will pick a surgical career – high on the list is trauma and orthopaedic surgery because I like the challenges and the excitement that comes with trauma. And I like the simplicity and the fun culture that is associated with orthopaedics. And when I say simplicity, I don't mean that the course or the training is simple because it is absolutely not. But I mean. I like the medicine – the knowledge side of it seems to be something I would gravitate to out of all the other specialities available to me. Where else I also see myself starting a business. I will determine that in the next 5 years, and alongside my career growth, I would hope to progress in my family life and build a family and see my family members succeed.

DA

 Health Unlidded is an organisation that spotlights the names and voices of people who have been victims of the disparities within healthcare and within medicine, so can you tell us of an experience you've had? Have you ever experienced racism during your career or training?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Absolutely, I experienced racism at school going to predominantly white schools, which is expected in England, but then you don't think about the teachers that might have bias against young black girls at the time who associate you as not worthy or smart enough, and if that impacts the predicted grades they send off to universities that impacts how they treat you. It impacts how much effort they put into your career growth and supporting you. I think that I definitely experienced moments of that where I was working very hard and my biology teacher kept predicting me Bs, even though  I was producing A*s and it was frustrating because I knew that her predictions could have a negative consequence on my applications. I definitely felt the consequence of that because of a microaggression early in my career when, within medicine, you definitely experience doctors and patients who are not used to being around Black British female doctors and that is a challenge in itself because people would like to comment on your heritage and where you're from and your hair and they ask you questions that have nothing to do with why they're in hospital.

DA

And do you feel that your career will be impacted or could be impacted if you speak up about the prejudice?

Dr. Ayoyemi

It could happen because when you are outnumbered. It's scary and people don't like being called out about their bad behaviour. But it's something that has to be done because the people before us did it. I would not have the opportunity as a black woman, to be in higher education, to be in medicine if someone else didn't stand up and speak up for what was right, so I have no choice but to.

DA

And what would you say to your colleagues who may think racism doesn't exist in the medical profession?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I would ask them to open their eyes and take a look at what's going on outside of themselves. Take a deep look at how people have been spoken to, the expectations put on them. Are people a bit harsher with people of ethnic minorities or people of Black ethnicity because within medicine especially, the minority is black people and I would ask people to take a closer look and really, really focus and listen to other people's experiences because it 100% exists.

DA

So far, a lot of our questions have been focused on you as a doctor and in the medical profession. I'm curious, do you have any memorable experiences as a patient as opposed to a doctor?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Yes. There was one time when I was at Warwick and I went to see the doctor about some skin lesions I was experiencing and at the time I didn't know what was causing it and the nurse I saw, an advanced nurse practitioner, which is someone who has been a nurse but has, you know, gained the qualification to prescribe and make clinical judgments, almost like a junior doctor. She saw me and she said, “Yes, I see these lesions on your skin, but it doesn't matter because you have dark skin, so no one will notice. No one will notice these lesions, and it's okay, so you can go about your day”. She dismissed my concerns. It took me having to evaluate my own life and monitor what was going on in my body to realise I was having bad reactions and sensitivities to certain food products like gluten and dairy. It's so strange to me that someone would look at your skin colour and say because you don't look like me, no one's going to notice it. Whereas if it affected a white person and it looked red and harsh and scary, it would have been taken more seriously, and that's a shame.

DA

Yeah, that's a common thing. I've noticed that when symptoms don't appear the same on people with darker skin, some doctors don't acknowledge that, which is just not good enough. So why do you still think there are any inequities within the NHS?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Because of what we are taught, we are taught to look at things from a Caucasian perspective. Symptoms and the pictures that we learn with are based on Caucasian skin, not brown skin, not black skin, and sometimes people can't think outside of themselves. If your experience is foreign to them and they don't get it, they just think they can minimise your experience. They don't ever consider that. The world is bigger than themselves if that makes sense.

DA

Do you think then that the NHS has to take action? Is it up to the NHS?

Dr. Ayoyemi

 Without a doubt because this country is very diverse and not just that, but if action isn't taken, you're putting people's lives at risk. You need to know the people you are treating, and the thing is we also have to remember that the people who work within the NHS are very highly skilled people that can work worldwide: nurses and doctors, and healthcare assistants can volunteer or move across country. To share their skill sets, you'd need to know medicine for more than just your local population, or you know yourself. You need to know what medicine is for brown people and black people and disabled people and so on.

DA

Yes, and, you know, prejudice can be nuanced. So, you're a black female doctor. I've asked you about the racism you've experienced, but have you faced any misogyny as a doctor in your training? Or more specifically, would you say it's misogynoir?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Both misogyny and misogynoir. I think patients, even female patients, don't realise that when I introduce myself as a doctor, it means I'm a doctor and not a nurse. I think people have so many preconceptions about what a nurse looks like that they continually say, “Nurse, nurse, nurse”. I respect the nursing profession highly, but I think there is a stereotype of what a nurse looks like and what a doctor looks like, and patients fall into that, and even when patients and their family members acknowledge that you are a doctor and they can see that written on your lanyard very clearly, they can still refer to as “the lady. The lady said this. The lady's come to talk to you”. You sit there and you think about it: if this was a male – a young white male of the same age as me in this situation, they would refer to him as doctor, without a doubt.  While it may seem like a small thing, there is definitely something disheartening about our credentials being ignored because we don't look a certain way.

DA

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely not a small thing. It's interesting that you say that because I recently watched a video where – it was some sort of committee meeting and there was a doctor on the committee – a black woman – and there was also a zoning commissioner on the meeting and the zoning Commissioner referred to her by her name. She said, “I'm a doctor”, and he repeated it and said just her name. She said, “I'm a doctor”, and he repeated just her name on and on and on. She said, “I would like you to call me a doctor” and instead he reduced it to just her first name. He eventually got fired, which is the correct action, I believe, but yeah, it just goes to show that there are many occurrences of this and it's simply not okay; it links to my next question. Do you feel respected as a doctor?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Not yet. I don't know if it's age. I don't know if it's race and I don't know if it's gender. Not yet is my only answer. I think age and experience will impact how I carry myself and then maybe that could make patients and colleagues see me as a doctor because one thing newly qualified doctors can agree on is even the nurses don't always treat you as the doctor. They don't acknowledge your qualifications, so it's very hard to distinguish what is the cause at this stage in my career.

DA

Now, Health Unlidded is all about lifting the lid on health education, trying to create a future where disparities in medicine are challenged, and more people are educated about our healthcare system. So, on a more positive note, what would you say you like most about the medical profession?

Dr. Ayoyemi

[Pause]. I really enjoy scientific knowledge. I really enjoy being able to take that knowledge and apply it to people, diagnosing them, managing them, treating them and so on. I really am an academic at heart and that's what I like about the medical profession. When you do have patients and their families who come up to you and they say, “Wow, thank you, doctor, you've been tremendous. You've been amazing. You are diligent. You have listened”. When you have people do that, it really, really makes a big difference, and it's incredible.

DA

So, would you say you definitely appreciate it when patients show gratitude?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Yes, when they see the hard work you put in and they express that you've made a difference in their lives.

DA

 And what do you have to say to the youth who want to study medicine?

Dr. Ayoyemi

Wow, that's a big question. Medicine is an incredible, incredible career and profession. I don't know. It's hard to separate the NHS from a career in medicine in this country because we all know that the NHS is struggling financially and is at capacity and staff are leaving the NHS. Medicine as its own category, wherever you are in the world, it's a beautiful profession and I highly recommend it and I'm really happy to be a doctor. I just hope that the NHS can get better over time.

DA

What are your hopes for the future of medicine?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I hope the conditions we are seeing arise that are causing long-term disabilities and reduced quality of life. I hope that we get some control over that, so I'm including type 2 diabetes and heart failure, cardiovascular diseases and hypertension. The conditions that are causing a reduction in quality of life in people – I really hope that we can prevent those things in the future and have better treatments for those things because it's very hard to see people – the same people – coming back regularly.

DA

 I guess more specifically, I'd say, what are your hopes for the future of the health care system?

Dr. Ayoyemi

I hope that when black people – I can only speak for black people as a black person, but when black people enter the work environment or they come as patients, they are treated correctly. They are listened to and the correct procedures are in place. That people don't treat us with, you know, negative biases and withhold us from pain relief. I don't want to see statistics about black women having a higher mortality in pregnancy and birth. I definitely want to see healthcare being more accessible and safer for black people.

DA

Me too. Thank you. And a question that we always ask is how we want to lift the lid. So, my last question for you is how do we lift the lid off the medical profession and healthcare system to create a more equitable and inclusive community? How do we do it?

Dr. Ayoyemi

And that is a tremendous question. I think we need to put more effort into research and investigating. These questions that we have, we need real-life statistics for life evidence that no one can deny. And that means, you know, quality improvement projects and audits and questionnaires out to the people who are impacted by health inequality. Once we see the problem clearly in real life and in research, then we can start making a plan on how to fix it and educate the people involved in healthcare and the people who access healthcare.

DA

I second that. Thank you so much, Doctor Ayoyemi for talking to me today. It's been great interviewing you, and it's been great getting your insight. As you know we love to put a spotlight on people who have been affected by the medical community or healthcare system, and I really hope that your voice is heard by many other people and that we can create, change and lift the lid. Thank you very much.

Dr. Ayoyemi

Thank you for interviewing me today.